hmmmm how to take on the VCs and Ogres with the puny elves

Hi all,

So now that the VC pics are out (awesome) and the rules are becoming clear/scary + it's the first "top tier" army book for 8th, I thought it would be an appropriate time to start thinking about how my puny "over priced/out of date/need an update" elves (of the pansy and hippie variety) can survive the onslaught of 8th in all its (fantastic) glory.

I've put alot of thought into it, applied the local comp (not as a limitation, but as a "guide" for my army and what to expect) and come up with the following two lists + justification:

First the Woodies:
lvl4: Beasts, scroll, ICI        280
BSB: Abane, HODA            130
4x8 Dryads                384
18 GGuard:FC-flame            250
6x10 GG: m                756
2x5 Wildriders: (m)            260
2 Eagles                100
2x5 waywatchers                240

So pretty much the list from a couple of posts ago minus all the surplus stuff.

Vs Ogres:
Basically hope and pray. T4 limited armour is no match for my shooting, so that is most of the army sorted. Scouting/stubborn Maneaters is basically free points turn 1. The big beasts are an issue, but can be shot and shot and shot. The 2+ as/unit rolling monsterous calv are the main issue (surprise surprise) as they cannot be KB'ed by the waywatchers (my usual anti armour). This unit/s will need to be bravely diverted by eagles and most likely the waywatchers (who are now "cheap"). Beasts + dryads in the flank could brave the attacks, but only as a last resort (and mainly to hold them up). Hopefully the "divide and conquer" principle will work its charm.

Vs VC's:
In 7th my woodies never struggled vs VC's. Treeman Ancient, treesinging + wardancers was basically the end of most units. Even my eternal guard had fun chomping though the zombie hordes and dryads LOVE etherals. Same principle in 8th me thinks. The etheral fast calv is the main concern and made me TEMPTED to drop an eagle for the magic attacks sprite and 2 more glade guard somewhere (still tempted), however that means losing a diverter which is useful vs other stuff + the etheral calv have "HODA target" written all over them (apparently for the same cost as Dprinces...). In fact, I believe this unit will be the first genuine HODA-able target in 8th. + dryads and wildriders can clean up where necessary. Flying monsterous stuff = just gets into short range faster. If concentrate on the points = should be able to get "quick wins" (sorry for gross business speak) and then hopefully not bleed too many in return.

High Elves:
Prince Moon Dragon: Ogre Blade, DA, Ench Shield, talis of Pres    571
BSB: A Silvered Steel, GW                    163
Noble: Eagle-AoC, GW                        168
lvl2: light, Scroll, amulet of light                170
25 Spears: FC                            250
25 Spears: FC                            250
10 A                                110
2x7 Swordmasters                        210
26 Wlions: m, Sb                        408
2 Eagles                            100
2400

My first thought is "oooooo contraversal no lvl4". My response is as follows:
My general concern with High Elf lists (and my experiences with them) is that I can be carving up my opponents troops no problems, but the real points are invested in magic (and die too easily). lvl4, lvl1, crystal, scroll, banner of sorcery is a big chunck of the army that is basically there to make sure I get miasma off when I need it. Too many games have gone from solid wins to close wins because the lvl4 (with no real bunker-and I refuse to use Phoenix "I need mindrazor" Guard) dies.

So my solution is to limit the points spent on magic and instead invest in killy stuff + a lvl2 has the same dispelling ability of a lvl3. The  army (like the woodies) is not really reliant on the magic = less of an impact when the hellheart kills everyone else's 800pt investment. Highelves dont really need buffs and hexes to do well-they just need them to dominate. I would rather have a cheap dispelling effort and the odd magic missile to thin chaff to let the mass s5/6 shine.

With Killy stuff I have made another contraversal choice: the dragon.

The Dragon is there for a number of reasons:
1) looks cool and was really, really fun to paint
2) centre piece of army
3) DISTRACTION
4) repeat step 3
5) eagle noble + dragon = calv that is fast and not s3 after charge.

points 3 and 5 are the main ones for army considerations. I was thinking about dragon princes (and I love my lion riders) and they hit hard, but then get stuck-dragons dont (or do less often). With dragon and eagle 1 of them will get through-esp with eagle "body guards". Vs Ogres they give me something to hunt the monster calv, the iron blaster + the Prince has magic sword, and when up vs the ASL aura still swings at i8 (so still faster than an ogre). The Amulet of light on the lvl2 is because it means I can either have magic shooting (etherals) or magic attacks (killing treekin) + being lore of light = missile battery and (hopefully) some useful annoying buffs.

Army tactic is to distract everyone with pretty dragon and noble eagle + the eagles while the spears, swordmaster detachments and whitelions + BSB kill everything. Dragon and eagle aim for squishy unit and kill as much as possible with no real consideration for getting their points back. If they spend every game war machine hunting, well so be it.

+ I am very, very consious that dragon + 1 swordmaster detachment = another unit of 25 whitelions with FC...possibly the better investment, but no where near as fun (+ would have to source another 25 whitelions! or sell my soul and put my unassembled 20 phoenix guard together + rank filler and start using them). If the 8th books get even more crazy with monster killing stuff, it will definitely be on the cards (with a prince on eagle and noble doing something else killy in the 2nd whitelion/phonix guard unit).

Armies I will struggle against:
Skaven due to storm dumbness banner and empire with non-flaming cannons + stank (which neither army can really deal with). However I'm the local empire player (and can be selective when lending it out...) and skaven games are not "real games" anyway as a under pointed banner basically makes the army ineffective. However both lists have enough combat stuff to mitigate that and moon dragons are m6 with swift stride, so can still smash into clan rats easily enough. Right now consious that phoenix guard instead of dragon would solve this problem...possibly have fun army and tournament army...must be getting late...

Vermintide results-won best painted army

Hey,

SO just came back from Welly NZ's last tournament of 2011. A 1 day 5 game 1200 point event. I took the following list:

lvl1: (general) shadow, scroll

BSB: GW, Armour of Caledor

19 Spears: M, SB

10 Archers: M

2x6 wlions

5 Swordmasters

5 Dragon Princes: M

2 T.Chariots

Eagle.

Game 1: vs WoC Battleline.

This game was an intro game where the points were maxed at 15-5, which was a little annoying as I tabled my opponent turn 5. His list was a lvl1 with 3rd eye, Tznch BSB with stuff, enough Tz Board and sword Warriors to get core, 4 Dragon Ogres with GW and 5 Tznch Knights with FC.

My Swordmasters struck early with a successful suicide strike on the General, giving me freedom to cast miasma. My Dragon princes were solid gold breaking and running down the dragon ogres on the charge (had suffered a few wounds from the archers). Game ended with a picture perfect combo charge on the warrior unit when I got 2 chariots (4 impact hits in total...) 1 unit of whitelions and the spears into the front and chopped the unit up good (thanks miasma) for a run down by the chariots, followed next turn by a whitelion sandwich with Chaos knights as the filling,

A good first game of the day.

Game 2: vs Delves random deployment

So finding myself at the top of the table I came up against the list that would take out the event...and my army rather comprehensively. He had: lvl4 (shadow) scroll, pendant pegman, 20 spears, 2x10 xbows, 2x5 harpies, 8 shades, hydra. Basically you can guess what happened. I decided that the only way to win would be to get to combat fast...only 1 unit made it through the fire (unit of 6 wlions) who chomped up a unit of xbows. I also killed the harpies for the loss of everything. So a nice 0-20 to put me back down the table. Not so happy I was tabled, but my only other option was to play a very boring defensive game (proving once again I am not a ruthless tournament player...maybe if I was not up against one of my usual gaming buddies haha).

Game 3: diagonal deployment vs Dwarfs

So back down the table and I draw a dwarf gunline....not looking good. He had: runesmith with 2+ and GW, 2x25 warriors, 10 quarrellers, a dragonslayer (with i5!), 2 cannons (1 flame) organ gun. My game plan was to rush the quarrellers and clear out the artillery while avoiding the warrior blocks (1 unit had GW). As it transpired I got to the quarrellers and beat them down to the loss of my Dprinces (counter charged my dragon slayer while I was s3...). My archers sat outside the organ gun range and slowly killed it off over the 6 turns...takes a while to roll 3 6’s to wound! His hw/sh warriors came out to play and I diverted them with the eagle and got their flank with the spears. After a thorough thrashing the dwarfs + runesmith managed to flee from my sluggish spears who then wore 8 dead from the organ gun before charging the front of the warriors to clean up (eagle in the flank). Win combat by heaps, but 1 frustrating kill short of breaking steadfast means those points were not taken. We draw the game with a 5 VP swing in his favour. If my lvl1 didnt explode turn 4 I would have squeaked out a minor victory. Oh Well

Game 4: Watchtower vs Dwarfs.

As this draw went up I queried with the TO whether there was a tournament rule about not having to play dwarfs 2 games in a row...seems that there wasn’t (note to self-if I'm ever a TO-that will be a rule). I got the watch tower and decided not to garrison it with a grudge thrower, flaming cannon and organ gun + 2x12 quarrellers all lined up to destroy whatever was in  it + 2 units of 20 hw/sh warriors to occupy it. With that in mind I used the same tactics as last game. Conveniently the 2 quarreller units were on the same flank (and not on same flank as organ gun) so I rushed them.  I basically drew a 24inch diameter on the table around the organ gun and stayed out of range. My Dprinces  took a grudge thrower to the face, losing 2 = I could slip the gap and do a bit of fast calv action. The Dprinces cleaned out the cannon, the 2+ as GW runesmith “anvil”, and then hit the grudge thrower (the organ gun exploded). They got flanked by the 2^nd unit of quarrellers who then got flanked by 2 whitelions-the game ending end of turn 5 with the 2^nd whitelion unit posed for a rear charge to clean up. My spears hungry for dwarf blood successfully broke and caught the warrior unit that was not in the watchtower. Swordmasters survived and didn’t see combat. I was saved by a poor 1^st round shooting from the dwarfs meaning my 2 chariots a eagle had a 2^nd turn to be big distractions. I won 13-7, having gifted my opponent 400vps for the tower.

Game 5: blood and glory vs Goblins

So last game of the event and I draw a gobbo list that was rocking: dude on giant squig with 5 squig hoppers, BSB on giant spider with 5 trolls, 2 fighty dudes on wolves in unit of 14 wolves, unit of 5 wolves, unit of 5 spider riders, pumpwagon, 2 gobbo chariots, mangler. So lots of stuff that will wipe my small units off the board. To win mission I had to take out the wolf bus as had banner + general. Things went well for me to start with. Whole game can be summed up as “grrrr failed pursuit roles”. I use my chariots as bait (1 taking out the pumpwagon in the process). My swordmasters wear the wolf bus to the front-they fail fear test and I hold (having killed a fair few wolves and wounded general). My Spears then get the flank and destroy the unit, it flees and I miss by 1 inch grrrrrrrr. His squig hoppers then decide my spears flank would be a good place to attack = game over for me. His giant squig guy killed my BSB in a challenge and then the rest of the unit. I managed to get a chariot to flee off the board, kill the squig hoppers (a bit too late though), mangler got eagled, and get the small wolves to flee off board. Rest of his army sat back threatening to flee any charge and sitting on edge of my charge range (and any failed charge by me would have cost me the unit). So with extra VP’s available to make up for 1^st game I lost 16-9. Could have swung the other way very easily had I caught the wolves/my swordmasters managed 1 more wound on the general.

RESULT

Results were rather good for me. My army won best painted (woot!), and I came 7^th which was good, but I was aiming for top 5, so just missed out. My empire army came 2^nd, which was also a fantastic result. On the "butcher award" I took the 3rd most VP's from my opponents-1st and 2nd going to the armies that placed 1st and 2nd. That I think is a good indication of aggressiveness of the list.

I like the list. Not enough to expand it to 2400, but enough to have a bit of respect for MSU. I chanced 3 games vs gunlines and came out alright considering...the BSB was the best investment I made! I’m still not sold on chariots. They did a fantastic job of distracting cannons and the like, but when they actually got a charge off (3 times) they did a combine total of 8 impact hits... Eagles could have done their job better and cheaper (and they too have “cannon magnet” tattooed on them).

I think I now have a handle on using smaller units of hit impact stuff. My 2400 list has the eagle prince and 2x7 swordmasters-so it will be fun to put into practice the things I have learnt over the weekend. I’m still not prepared to drop the whitelion horde or the banner of sorcery, but that current format is definitely something that could be up for review for a more mobile approach. For instance dropping the banner of sorcery could give me 2  units of 14 whitelions, which would be cool, but still not sold on whether it would have the same bite + would be vulnerable to magic missiles/shooting in a way the horde is not (but less vulnerable to dwellers etc).

Now to finish basing and painting the 2400 list so I can show it off and get some big wins on the table...WoC armies I'm looking at you! Though I still have to figure a way to deal with Delf shooting armies other than putting my woodies on the board.

Vermintide III army pics and list

Next weekend is the last Wellington Event of 2011. It is a 1200pt one day even that in the past has been a whole lot of fun.

I figured it was time that my much talked about High Elves should get their first run at an event. I will be taking the following list:

Lvl1: Shadow, scroll (General)
BSB: GW, Armour of Caledor

19 Spears: M, SB
10 Archers: M

6 White Lions
6 White Lions
5 Swordmasters
5 Dragon Princes: M
Tironic Chariot
Tironic Chariot

Eagle

So a bit of an MSU list. Figured that at this points level the High Elves either have the minimum legal drops and suck, or try and maximise frontage vs units by having lots of small very hitty units. Also having lots of units means that only having a lvl1 (2) for dispelling will not be much a problem.

Not sure how I'm going to do. I know I will struggle vs armies with lots of bodies to churn through (ie skaven), but vs most armies I have the drops, the speed, and the hittiness to smash my way through a few units.

I have also managed to get the army painted, based, and some movement trays done up. I was originally going to do the basing in an autumn theme. However Once I started doing the bases I thought a dry plain look would work. Suits my theme too as I went for Greek/Roman feel for the paint scheme. Enjoy!