Monday, 27 May 2013

Dragon Princes aint all that...thoughts after first game

Sup all,

So with a massive ONE game (and watching one game) in with the new High Elves and I have some observations:

  • It's either Loremaster OR lvl4: 600pts where 1/2 of that is actually casting (loremaster) and the other half is there for +4 to dispel and the 1 big spell per game...yeah. I'll be running one or the other from now on and pumping the spare points into boyz. 
  • Core needs to bring some punch: I made the fatal flaw in the list I used in that all my punch was in the special choices = core was all chaff. Wait a sec-Silverhelms are there!
  • Calv buses...what a great way to give up lots of points: Dragon Prince bus with 2 nobles = awesome charge...then they are glorified s3 guys while the rest of the army plays catch up. Elves are an infantry army with calv support...not a calv army with infantry support!
Having smashed a Skillcannon the bus gets stuck into/on some beasts and ground down.
 Whitelions look on from afar
  • Banner of the World dragon to be treated as a nice addition to a unit-not the key strategy: Units can still lose to Combat res...especially when only pumping out s3 attacks. Treat this item as an  "oh yeah-your magic weapon does nothing" not a "hahahahaha I shall charge into the middle of your army!"
So with that in mind I have had a good look at the book. It is playing in my mind that I'm still hearing "there is a good build in there somewhere"...Tim Joss-you made Tombkings work... 

The Phoenix look great...but my Empire cannons laugh at them. Calv buses need to break on the charge or they die. Silverhelms vs Empire Vanilla knights = vanilla knights FTW. Basically I cant see anything that threatens my Empire build other than a crazy good run with the winds of magic. Even the new Whitelions are a negligible threat. Wack them with Iceshard blizzard vs Demigryphs or my Halberd bus and my Empire is doing fine...especially if they have worn a round of Hellblaster goodness. 

However, what I do see is lots of mobility, and classic anvil/hammer TVI tactics (see for a break down). My proposed take on this tactica looks something like this:

Loremaster: Book of Lolz, axe of might, shield of Merwyrm, 80's powermetal hairband of Atrazar
BSB: Armour of Caledor, Halberd
2x5 Reavers
10 Silverhelms: M, SB
18 Archers: M
27 Whitelions: FC-banner of world dragon
24 Phoenix Guard: FC-razor standard
2x5 Dragon Princes: M
2x1 RBT

Anvils = the Whitelions and Phoenix Guard. Hammers = silverhelms, and the dragon princes. RBT help thin lines, archers archer stuff/make up the 600pts of core, and the reavors do what the do. Still not the strongest, but it would force my Empire list to pause for thought before tackling the Elite infantry-especially when the threat of s5AP re-rolling to hit, t4 4+ ward fear causing Phoenix Guard is always there. They would be deployed 5 wide to take the charge and then reform 7 wide to get their (wildformed) chop on.  

Anywho that's the latest thoughts. 


  1. All good observations. DoC beasts are simply amazing, nothing tarpits like them for the equivalent points cost. Having 2 decent foot combat blocks should make life more difficult for your opponent. Maybe take them for another spin this weekend?

  2. I couldve told you they sucked before the book came out :-P Ive been constantly astounded by people saying DP buses would be all the rage. Glad to see others realising it...

    Ben, Eagles are a waste of points after youve bought 2-3 units of reavers in core. Hard to justify more points spent on chaff.

  3. Reavers are tasty. With eagles the feathers get stuck in your teeth.

    Happy to confirm that the BotWD DP bus doesn't work. Very evident that that banner should be elsewhere - I'm suggesting WL but certainly infantry.

    My DoC are 3-0 vs new HE but are yet to see Phoenix in action.

    I also think 1-2 Reavers good but 3+ is unimaginative and potentially cumbersome

    1. I dont see the Phoenix troubling you too much. The fire phoenix has no targets (and vs the armies that it does, it is also up against lots of artillery), and the frostphoenix is 2 skillcannons away from dead.

      Joel v

  4. So you dont see any truck in running the Loremaster/Archmage with Book double?

    1. Not particularly. I would suggest building. List around either a lvl4 or a lore master. They compete for dice and the chances are is that one is going to do nothing all game = wasted points. Book on the lore master really boosts his casting threat ie lots of little spells/turn. To me this is more effective than a lvl4, but that is just my opinion. I'm sure ETC lists will be ├╝ber Mage heavy + maxed Phoenix

      Joel v

  5. I am thinking about trying the DP bus. But i do think that if you go for a DP bus list you have to go big or go home.

    For example having a unit of 11 DP plus a Prince with the ogre blade, a second noble with star lance, a BSB, an a lvl 4 with book on beasts for wildform and savage beasts (+3S and +3A) to give your characters and the unit a lot of combat punch in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of combat if you can't break the opponents unit on the charge, or are charged.

    Of course this means having about half of the points in your army in one unit, that the opponent will try and re direct away from his main blocks while moping up the other half of your army :)

    1. Or have the lvl4 on shadow on foot in a unit of 50 sea guard for core. MINDRAZOR!

      Joel v